Edward Lai Harner, Edward Harner
Andrea Harner
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November 10, 2004

Free vs Slave States & Fuck the South

Wow, blog readers...we've really got a debate a ragin' on the United States of Canada and Jesusland post!

Here's more fuel for the fire:


Compare through the tears!


Here's a rant that's deservedly making the blogosphere rounds but probably won't help the cause unless the cause is secession.

Click for more:


If anyone knows the author of "Fuck the South" please give a holler...planning a dinner party.


I say that you move up north to Canada - we need some more left leaning people - scary to say, but the more conservative the US gets the more Canada seems to follow. So I am being selfish, but come help us maintain a good social safety net and a solid left leaning society. please?

Posted by: scared at November 10, 2004 11:10 AM

If you look at a by county map of which counties in most Southern states went Bush or Kerry, I think you'll find that the more populated counties where there are actual cities went for Kerry, but unfortunately the population of the rural areas outnumbered the total population of the metropolitan areas (because the South is more rural than urban). Consider that this is the same situation as in New York, but the liberal population of the city easily trumps all the conservatives spread out in the conservative counties. See here for some more accurate maps of actual voting. Notice how wishy-washy purple the majority of New York remains in the map near the bottom of that page.

I've lived in the South, in the Midwest and in the Northeast. As far as I can tell, the issue this rant should be focusing on shouldn't be North versus South, but rather rural versus city.

As a former Mississippian (who now lives in New York, incidentally), someone who feels strongly about the problem of racism in America, and a fervently anti-Bush citizen, I take offense at this backwards-minded "Fuck the South" rant.

The Civil War happened quite some time ago. The rest of America needs to stop using the South as their scapegoat for all of America's problems. Racism seems to be the issue that most commonly uses the South as its Scapegoat, but I've seen more racism in the rural Midwest than I ever saw growing up in Jackson, Mississippi. Also, in the Northeast I've witnessed rather rampant racism, but it is much more separated into all the different ethnicities in the melting pot than in the South and Midwest, where it mostly falls along the lines of black / white / foreigner. As a result, some people here hate Jews, while others hate Puerto Ricans, whereas others hate Italians, et-cetera and so on, but it's such a segregated piece of hate that it is often overlooked in favor of copping the Southern scapegoat: A sort of "that's where the real racists are; I only suffer from a mild prejudice" lie that many Americans tell themselves.

Posted by: C.K. Sample, III at November 10, 2004 11:11 AM

I just realized the comments here don't allow hyperlinks. Here's the link to the maps I mention in the above post:

Posted by: C.K. Sample, III at November 10, 2004 11:12 AM

Wow C.K., you manage to be both informative and amazingly tiresome.

Fuck the south AND the rural morons.

Posted by: Heather at November 10, 2004 11:38 AM


Posted by: Eve at November 10, 2004 11:51 AM

Wow, Heather, your response to my comment manages to reek of the anti-intellectual blustering of a Bush-supporter!

Posted by: C.K. Sample, III at November 10, 2004 12:34 PM

Wow C.K., if it's anti-intellectual and Bush-luvin' to be bored by a tedious windbag on his soapbox, then I guess I voted for the wrong party.

Peace out C.K.!

Posted by: Heather at November 10, 2004 1:57 PM

Have fun in Canada. Don't forget to write. Buh bye!!!

Posted by: tom at November 10, 2004 3:10 PM

Four score and seven years ago our forefathers brought forth on this continent something they probably now wish they hadn't ...

Posted by: Forest Green at November 10, 2004 9:04 PM

CK I think your point is interesting and relevant. (Even though I love Heather.)

Posted by: Chelsea at November 11, 2004 4:00 PM

Addendum: Interesting and relevant in parts.

Posted by: Chelsea at November 11, 2004 4:01 PM

CK, I liked your post and your opinion. What you'll notice on this blog is what the authors consider to be progressive thought is actually repressive. Its facinating! Watch what you say though, because if Andrea doesn't like your post she erases it. It turns out that Andrea's democracy -- this blog -- engages in censorship. Bob

Posted by: Bob at November 11, 2004 5:00 PM

That's right, folks...Bob is correct. He wrote about the french bulldog below being ugly and I deleted it because it was mean and uninteresting. Watch out for my censorship!...and Bob's sensitivity too...

Posted by: Andrea at November 11, 2004 6:27 PM

Saw this from another site... interesting how it is spreading now ... its funny in a dark kind of way - and tragic too.

i think you'll ove ted rall's most recent post --- re: confessions of a cultural elitist... it will make you smile...

Posted by: jdavies at November 12, 2004 11:26 AM

Your Carl Rovelike "sensitivity" comment is funny in light of the word's role in the last election. It seems you learned the lesson well: go negative, stay negative and, if reason fails, call people names.

Posted by: Bob at November 12, 2004 1:37 PM

I think it's very improtant to point out that the system needs to be reformed so that there aren't "red" or "blue" states, but rather states with varying shades of PURPLE.

Specifically: that electoral votes be given up proportional to the percentage of voters that supported each candidate.

And, by the way, we could use more parties (Greens, Workers, ertc.) in Congress.

The "winner take all" aspect of the state's electoral votes is why there's this FALSE red/blue dichotomy perpetuated by the media.

Absolutely you can say that the "red" states are predominantely right-wing conservative fuck-offs. However, in many of these state as much as a third of the voters (or more) voted Democrat and supported Kerry.

I'm probably the most anti-American person posting on this board (for example, I hope for a default in the next admin on T-Bills, the collapse of the dollar, and I truly believe that an Argentine-style economic meltdown in the US would be a good, sobering thing...) -----

but I get really sick and tired of how everyone eats up the pre-conceived mis-representations perpetuated by the media relating to this whole red/blue thing.

Again, if you look at the numbers, a huge portion of that 48% that voted for Kerry is in those red states. It may not be a majority of the kerry voters (I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but 34% voted for Kerry in Oklahoma... and Wesley Clark would have taken a lot more), but it's a relevant number of voters. Without those votes, Kerry would have had NO chance of winning. And you Yanks (I'm actually from NYC, and have live there off and on for some years) better be careful not to alienate your southern liberals because it's very likely to increase apathy in the "red states" and we'll see President Jeb Bush (or perhaps President John McCain, who, in spite of the lefty apologists, I think is a douche-bag) in 2008.

Have your fun now at over half of the country's expense, but you better get over it quick and stop acting like the pretentious, self-loving, consumeristic yuppie Yanks the rest of the country thinks you are.

My two cents,


PS - Canada's too cold. Even my US-hating Canadian friends agree - they live in Mexico City.

Posted by: * at November 18, 2004 5:58 PM

To those who identify with the "Fuck the South" site/ideation:

All you idiots who lump all members of a region in one clump are no better than the hate mongers who terrorized the South in the liveliest days of KKK. Nice Generalization... If it's people like you that are representing the left wing, you should maybe open your mind that you isolate many allies when you say things like "Fuck the South." I come from a many generations of Southerners in the coal mining parts of East Tennessee. Being Democratic is not always popular, especially by those who aren't informed voters (they're everywhere, by the way). Many of us fought hard for the Democrats, or at least worked hard against Bush. I've contributed time, money, and grass roots work for the South (and the country at large), and am appalled by the cavalier statement, "Fuck the South." I know not everyone is as backwards as those who embrace this ideology, but to those of you who do feel that way, I don't want you representing my party or the values of democracy that I hold dear. It's idiots like you who keep our party fragmented and immature. Why would I jump on your bandwagon? I guess I would if I were an idiot, but it would be easier to not think and just vote Republican. I won't dignify your beliefs by offering a "Fuck you" to you, but I would hope that, as fellow Americans that is not satisfied with our government to open your eyes to unifying against the regime in the White House, and stop trying to blame the South. It's not productive, and it makes you look like an idiot.

Posted by: Evan at November 22, 2004 4:32 PM

Thank you Evan.

Although I do not agree with your generalization about a non-thinking republican party, I do agree with your recognition of a divisive element in many modern democrats. I once sympothized with democrats, but the older and wiser I became, the more I began to recognise this hateful, finger pointing, and bottom feeding quality of many "democrats"

With the 04 election, I think many people would be well served to step back and analyze why a majority of people in this country chose George W. Bush as president.

Regardless, the election is over. DEAL WITH IT. If you do not like this country, you do have the freedom to go to Canada or whatever country you like. But you must remember, this is a democracy. A country for the people and by the people. Sometimes you will not agree with "the people", but you are only hurting this country when you do not work WITH the people.

Basically, stop bitching. Nothing wrong has happened. This was a normal democratic election and the Republicans won again. The democratic party no longer represents a majority of people in this country. Democrats must re-define their party or dwindle into the annals of history.

And to the operator of this site. You might consider posting a county by county map of the election. The only problem is that this map completely destroys the sad attempt you have made to make similarities between the pre-civil war south and the 04 election. Most of the country, North and Sout and West and East voted for Bush. Blog about that.

Posted by: Rocky at November 29, 2004 5:32 PM
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